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J.K. Lund's avatar

Great piece Kevin illustrating again that 1) UBI is a broad term with different meaning for different people. 2) The mathematics make the cost very difficult to justify in the AGI context.

I have a couple of pieces I am working on that discuss this. First, historically, automation has created more jobs than it destroyed. Given this, we could argue that fears of AI mass unemployment are overblown.

On the other hand, if AI does offer a “better than human” stand in for labor and cognitive tasks (assuming AI is also controllable) then the explosion of ideas creation will lead to incredible economic growth while also potentially driving down the value of human labor.

Both scenarios have positives, the former doesn’t require UBI, the latter creates incredible wealth where it might make UBI possible.

For me, the solution then is to begin replacing welfare programs with cash benefits now. That way, depending on which future path turns out to be correct, we can simply adjust the amount of cash distributed over time.

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Colin's avatar

honestly i'm surprised i've never heard UBI framed this way until now.there's a leap here that funding for UBI would come from an income tax, which i'm not wholly sold on. technology is deflationary, or such is the trope, and to what degree you accept that as accurate would seem to drive a lot of how you think about "post-labor" economy.

because if technology _is_ deflationary -- if technological growth decreases the costs of production -- then the real cost to providing the "base necessities" ought also to decrease in time, absent shifting definitions for what those "base necessities" are. "post labor" in the *extreme* means that labor is completely absent from production: that all production is automated. then where is the scarcity? where do you point and say "*this* is why the products of a post-labor economy have a cost to them (and hence, are inaccessible to those without means)"?

taking "post-labor" seriously, then ask "if it requires no labor to manifest a factory which would provide all the material food, shelter, and basic needs, then what's preventing each person without other means from doing so?". the intuitive answer is "actually it _does_ still require labor to do those things, it just isn't legible". but that's just a denial of "post labor", and the question should shift to focusing on that failure to allocate labor.

the answers to the above which accept "post labor" have to confront that the constraints on production *no longer have to do with the differences between individuals*. they're things like "you can't manifest a factory here because someone else owns the land required for it", or "someone else owns the patents", and other such things where you're dealing with property rights which were at best obtained during a period _before_ this "post-labor" economy.

perhaps a practical answer to the above is that even in a post-labor economy, there are inescapable physical constraints. there's still a limited supply of the material inputs to such an economy: the different ores needing to be mined from the earth, energy inputs from the Sun, and so forth. if a UBI exists in such an economy which fully automates production downstream of those physical inputs, a price system serves to allocate those physical inputs, indirectly, to the people downstream of all this. it doesn't require taxation of any kind. it's just a recognition that if we didn't enforce a price system, those material inputs would be allocated wastefully. and i'm not sure what more palatable form of allocation would exist there other than "everyone gets a roughly equal share of the inputs, which we distribute by means of some UBI".

anyway, i don't expect this conclusion to be met with cheers. but i'm not sure how to avoid it except by claiming that post-labor is a lie, or that increased unemployment isn't wholly technological (which to be honest, is far more believable to me).

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